help cloning Merit hard drives

By Jim Cardo (Jimcardo) on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 01:46 am: Edit

 I have followed all the posts here to the letter, I tried both dolly and diskpro but still cannot clone any Merit hard drive.I would like to have these on hand just in case I ever need them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 By Dean Thompson (Rsda) on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Monday, June 17, 2002 - 01:20 am: Edit

Here's what I have been told:

The hard drives used by Merit have hardware level security built into the drives. That is why they can't be copied.

By rick pogany (Twobits) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:42 am: Edit

1)Take the cable you are using to do your updates too maxx's from CD's and plug it into a hard drive.

2)Plug in a Keyboard into your maxx

3)Turn power to game on

4)Watch screen, when it gets to 123456 press F5

5)When asked for date etc. just hit enter key till you get to the c prompt

6)From the c prompt type CD tools

7)Then Type CD ghost

8)Then type ghost

9)From here just hit the enter key till you get to screen asking for sourse drive.

10)The #1 drive is the drive in the maxx, #2 is the one you have connected via CD cable.

11)Choose the appropriate drive #, eg. if coping from a maxx to make a spare drive choose #1 as sourse, if coping a spare drive to a maxx choose #2 as sourse

Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 10:47 am: Edit

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Yes you CAN clone a Merit HDD. Sounds like Rick (twobits) has it done. Better yet, Merit uses GHOST! I have a friend who pirates PS2 and XBox games. They use the same "technology" to scramble the raw data on their CD's. As long as you assimilate it correctly, and then set it up right, you CAN ghost any Merit using Nero and WinCDR to rearrange the raw data into what it should appear as, and dump that back to any large enough HDD. Or you can use GHOST 7.5+ or Ghost 2000+ set on "Sector for sector copy plus boot" and "direct IDE access", and use an identical drive. If you feed a PC the right info, it is incapable of making a thought-provoked decision based on more than the fundamentals of available PC technology. Beyond that, dont you think Microsoft would have only released Windows already on one of these hard drives with this "Hardware Level Security" to save the millions they are loosing on piracy, not to mention twenty billion other programmers???

There is no such thing as "hardware level security" available for Harddrives. All there IS is the ability to block using your standard clone with a signature that is looked for by the SOFTWARE in the Merit Boot Code. This signature is the way the data is written to and read from the drive (IE- the directory tree and data size that you see are NOT a true

By Jim Cardo (Jimcardo) on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 06:40 am: Edit

By Jim Cardo (Jimcardo) on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:20 pm: Edit

By rick pogany (Twobits) on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 01:49 am: Edit  

xxxxx, did you try, the way I discribed to clone the maxx hard drive?? Try to clone to any drive Maxtor, Quautuim etc. as long as the drive is just as large or larger than the maxx drive.I've done this with a few maxx's, no problem. Then just take the cloned drive and replace it with the maxx drive and see what happens. Just make sure you are using the same Dallas Key 2k, ddiamond or gem. Sometimes I use a cloned drive with all the updates,pricing,preferrences and custom advertizing on it to do my updates,this is easer than using CD,s and having to flash custom screens and then do pricing etc

By KEITH (Keith) on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:35 pm: Edit

 xxxxx IS RIGHT, IF YOU POWER UP A MERIT GAME YOU WILL SEE THAT WHEN THE COMPUTOR RECOGNISES THE HARD DRIVE IT SAYS MERIT..... INSTEAD OF WDC OR QUANTUM OR SEAGATE.... THEY HAVE DONE SOMTHING IN THE FIRMWARE SO YOU HAVE TO USE THEIR DRIVE. HOWEVER YOU CAN CLONE FROM THEIR DRIVE TO THEIR DRIVE. LETS SAY YOUR DOING AN UPGRADE FROM A CD AND FOR SOME REASON THE DRIVE GETS CORRUPTED, YOU CAN TAKE ANOTHER DRIVE FROM A GOOD MACHINE AND GHOST IT AS LONG AS THEIR BOTH MERIT HARDRIVES.

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Like I said guys, it is NOT Firmware or Hardware (WRONG), It is called "Raw Data Mode I" and Sony and Intel are using it too. If  Rick can clone, and I can clone the ways I described, why couldn't you? What's all this fuss? I have used NON-Merit drives to hold the data, and also made images (using the complicated Raw Data Mode Reorganization I described in my post) and dumped those partitions sucessfully as well.

 Yes, Jim, it is necessasary to use an identical drive as I stated in my post above, but forgot to mention to you in my email.

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 02:44 pm: Edit

 Hey Keith and xxxxx.... If you own a copy of Boot Commander or MBRBios, you can make the Name of the Hard Drive at Boot Time appear as "Found Disk0: Eric 10200Mb 867-5309" or "Found Disk1: xxxxx VirusParty Disk 500000 Mb", OR "MERIT" and "Seagate"....etc, etc,...It's not firmware, it's ACCESS. No more than flashing the disk bios with a custom update. Firmware is software and hardware that is designed and combined by a programmer, not impregnated when the silicone is baked.

Also I should mention I have not tried NON-identical HDs to clone Merits, as I had problems early on with games as simple as GTFore. I learned from this to find a matching HD. Also, had a Killer Instinct that wouldn't boot unless it had the SAME HardDrive, so I skipped the experimentation on these games and went for matching drives, and learned the rest from "long-form" Imaging and CDR technology..

Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Well, guess I try experimenting again. I used DOLLY to copy a Platinum to an image file, then used that file to copy off to another drive - wouldn't work. Haven't tried try Ghost yet. Must try to locate an identical drive I suppose.

"as I had problems early on with games as simple as GTFore. I learned from this to find a matching HD"

By Dean Thompson (Rsda) on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

OK, I guess I am just stupid. I have tries ALL of the methods mentioned in this article. I had success doing a GT Fore, so now I feel good that I have a backup drive if (WHEN) one goes down. BUT, no matter what I have tried, I can not makea backup of a Merit XL Platinum. I can't understand this. I am not trying to take over making my own machines, I just want to have a spare HD or 2 (as is allowed by Federal Law) so that I don't lose the software I have purchased. When I make a copy and put it in the machine, it boots up and says "Hard Drive Copy Failed". Now how the heck did the machine know it was a copy?

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Dean, in response to you...

"I just want to have a spare HD or 2 (as is allowed by Federal Law) so that I don't lose the software I have purchased."

When we purchase a CD or DVD or Windows 98, we are legally intitled to make ONE copy for safety, as we purchased a single user license along with the product. With a Merit, or GTFore! it is a little different. First of all, Rick has made clear that he HAS made backups using MERITS' own programming, so it is possible, and they appearantly don't mind. Second, and more importantly, we are NOT protected or intitled to make a backup of any of these games. We bought the game as an assembly. Duplication, in part or in whole, is restricted by patent and copyright laws that do not apply to other media. We didn't JUST purchase a program from Merit, we purchased the WHOLE game, and therefore duplicating any one part of it is infringment on their rights. Since none of us (hopefully) is trying to duplicate the entire piece, we are not in direct violation of their rights, but they may still object and could technically pursue us for the infringment. I just wanted to point this out. I am NOT picking on US!! The manufacturers, programmers, and distributors all profit from the purchase of those $350.00 "copies" we buy to fix these games. I do believe (although I don't profess to know for a fact) that Midway, Merit, and the like DO license the disrtibutors to sell these copies to legitimate owners of their machines, and strictly prohibit open cash sales to just anyone. Again, We did NOT purchase the software, but the piece as a whole. Upgrades and software packages are also licensed and state on the disclaimer inside NOT to duplicate the software in any part. Just thought I should share that. You should still be able to clone sucessfully, legalities not-withstanding. If you still can't, send me a HDD and a master, and I will

clone anything for you free of charge (you pay shipping!) IF I don't have the same game or version already here to use with just a hard drive.

"When I make a copy and put it in the machine, it boots up and says "Hard Drive Copy Failed". Now how the heck did the machine know it was a copy?"

As I said, it is just like encription. You send me email, and my key decripts it correctly, while to others without the key, even you, it looks like nothing recognisable. (sound familiar? The machine doesn't "recognise" your data?) Because it was copied logically, not "reorganised" properly by the copy program (which they are not designed to do), and not decripted. The boot code is left alone for each drive so as to boot correctly and be recognised by BIOS as THAT drive, not the Merit!

Lets say a tree within your Merit HardDrive is:

"C:\Merit\Maxx\ladies\games\hot\xxx\ect\ect"

when actually it should appear as

"C:\Merit\Games\Maxx\ladies\xxx\hot\ect\ect"

Get the idea?

This is just an example, not a real folder tree from a Merit drive. It is actually the sequence of the data, not the location of files within them. Sony uses it on PS2 and Intel uses it for the GameCube, and others have used it. To clone WITH the boot code intact, you have to do it in just the right way. Dolly's "/C" switch doesn't work, nor does DCPR. Only Ghost can copy sector-for-sector including an untouched boot code and record. Thats why they use it.

By Kevin M. (Halfmachine) on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 01:12 pm: Edit

"I have a friend who pirates PS2 and XBox games. They use the same "technology" to scramble the raw data on their CD's."

Just to nitpick here, PS2/Xbox copy protection is different from the currently discussed HD cloning issue. Generally the use of signature data/keys that cannot be duplicated is used for console protection.

"Beyond that, dont you think Microsoft would have only released Windows already on one of these hard drives with this "Hardware Level Security" to save the millions they are loosing on piracy, not to mention twenty billion other programmers???"

Just an interesting aside...

Believe me, if M$ could do this they would! However the reality is that even M$, with all its clout, would be unable to effect such a change on the PC market.

I remember a few years ago there was a suggestion to embed unique identifier keys in hard drive firmware so software could be tied or locked to a specific hard drive. A few drive manufacturers, among them WD (if memory serves me right) supported the concept, but it was quickly killed off for a variety of reasons, among them privacy and big brother concerns (Not to mention the inertia that anyone implementing this change would have to fight. Your Windows boot drive drop dead? Go buy another drive and another copy of Windows etc). This would be unworkable for the PC market,

where the norm is to clone/copy drives freely, without dealing with annoying obtrusive copy protection issues. I'm also reminded of the fuss a few years ago over Intel's unique CPU serial # in Pentium 3. The intent was to be able to add security to web transactions etc since each CPU would have a unique serial # that could be used for encryption etc.

However, when it was discovered that the CPU ID feature could have be turned on or reenabled in software (even if disabled by the user) so that web sites could read the serial and possibly track visitors or what you do/where you go on the web it was Bye-Bye for that idea.

The moral of the story is that PC-wise, deviations from the PC normal "standards" are doomed to failure. However, for other markets and purposes (such as arcade/gaming) because equipment is not standardised or use a common base platform, designers are free to do whatever they want. There's nothing stopping any game company from using custom drives (i.e. modified drive firmware) in their products, except for cost - by doing so, they'd lose the big advantage of using standard (i.e. cheap), easily available off the shelf PC technology. I haven't worked on any of the Merit equipment discussed in this thread so I can't offer any first hand experience here.

But I do have one final thought. Even with "standard" IDE drives there is a way to lock software to a specific drive or drive model. As detailed in the IDE/ATA standard there are commands to identify drives (i.e. the Model string you see when a drive is autodetected on PCs) as well as return the drive's serial number. Either of these could be used in theory to check and enforce that game software only runs from a specific drive brand or model (or from a drive with a specific serial number - although from a game fixer point of view this would just be evil, as you couldn't create working backups).

 But it seems from the data posted here that the Merit drive firmware is modified to return a custom ID message. Maybe it is this ID message that is checked on boot by the game software. This would offer a simple, yet effective means of  software security protection.

 Perhaps that is why this method has worked for Eric, because he has used the same drive model.

 ~Kevin~

+HalfMachine+

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Kevin,

Good point. I will today try to clone my Mreit Maxx with a different HDD, and NOT using ghost. I will post back this evening. This way I will know for sure. BTW- The firmware string I can manipulate, including the sreial #. All you need is

a chip reader/burner or a copy of one of the above mentioned programs.

By Walter Ahlgrim (Walta) on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 02:38 am: Edit

 Eric to clone a maxx is simple, however a XL HDD is a whole different ball of wax. Merit feared that someone would buy a CD version copy it to a HDD and save a few $, so those HDD have extra security. If someone has made a clone of Gold Platinum or Titanium please tell us how.

By Eric Gorodetzky (Techmanager) on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 10:43 pm: Edit

 I sucessfully cloned both the Gold Platinum and the Maxx using Ghost, Dolly, DiskPro and DriveImagePro. Here's how...

Purchased 2 identical HDD's.

Took Original Master from our Gold Platinum.

Removed the disk controller card from Original.

Replaced controller with card from new (blank) drive #1.

Cloned four different ways using the above programs.

Installed the Master controller card on the copy.

Booted the game without a problem.

 Now maybe this sounds too simple/complicated to do, but all I now have to do is clone the firmware PIC chip and I'm in "bisness". Digi-Key has these chips in quantity. This project will cost us about $150 initially, including the shipping on the chips, and allot less with each additional drive. This doesn't account for the equipment I use to copy firmware, and it is a hoop to jump, but this will save alot over time, as I am not having to purchase drives from anyone but the store.

By Kevin M. (Halfmachine) on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 10:45 am: Edit

 "Now maybe this sounds too simple/complicated to do, but all I now have to do is clone the firmware PIC chip and I'm in "bisness"

 I'd be VERY surprised if PICs are used on the hard drive PCB - usually there are custom ASICs for controller/DSP functions in addition to Flash or EPROM or OTP ROMs that store the controller code. In some instances (i.e. non Flash memory on older drives) the firmware ROM is even socketed for easy replacement.

 I've never seen a PIC on a hard drive PCB. What's the part # of the PIC? What model/brand drive is this?

 Even if the hard drive PCB uses a PIC chances are the security fuse has been blown, so you wouldn't be able to read the contents in order to copy the chip.

 However, I doubt that a PIC is used for storing firmware (a PIC is not a memory storage device). If a PIC is indeed used,  it's probably for control/logic functions, and may indeed be intended as some measure of security. But the drive firmware is almost certainly stored in conventional ROM memory.

 If the original Merit/Blank drives are indeed identical in terms of brand/model then you should be able to compare the two PCBs for differences. I'd attempt to swap the firmware ROM (or PIC if one is present) between drives and see what happens, especially before ordering further equipment. Note that this may involve surface mounted components if the components are not socketed.

 ~Kevin~

Best software to back up merit emerald?

By Chris Domingue (Cdman) on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 09:48 pm: Edit

By Dean Thompson (Rsda) on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 02:48 am: Edit

To heck with easiest, I just want a way that works, I wouldn't care how hard it was or how much it hurt. I have tried every suggestion and still get "Drive copy failed" when I put the copy into a machine. Now how does it know it's a copy? The

law says I have the right to back up my software, that is all I want to do. I just had another Platinum HD go out yesterday. I have another Platinum in the shop with a dead monitor. I can fix the monitor, but want to make a working Plat HD while I have the other one in here so both can go back to work. Dean (RSDA)

By Ken Kaval (Drlngus) on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 06:10 am: Edit

By Bob Asciolla (Avalon) on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 07:55 am: Edit

Ok, after reading many posts regarding copying hard drives, I am compelled to write. I am tired of reading posts claiming there are all these so called ways Merit and other companies "block" us from copying hard drives. As usual, we, (includes me) in the vending business always look for the easiest and cheapest way to accomplish something. And guess what, we never learn. We do it the cheapest way, and then spend the actual money and have it done and it costs us more in the long run. I use an Imagemaster hard drive copier. No computer, nothing else, no dolly or ghost programs, or fancy computers, or encrypted codes to block you from copying. The imagemaster costs about $1100 and

is worth every penny. It will copy ANY hard drive in about 6 minutes. So, as soon as I get a "New" game in with a hard drive, I burn 2 copies for the shop, 1 for the bench, and 1 for the game. I put the factory HD in the filing cabinet and keep it as the master. Have fun.

By K (Drlngus) on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 10:37 pm: Edit

But will it copy Platium HD, Gold and Force????

By Bob Asciolla (Avalon) on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:48 pm: Edit

By Matt Mac Donagh (Gamefixer) on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 01:33 am: Edit

Hey Bob.

I work for a coin-op distributor in California and we have the Image Master Solo as well. While it will copy the Force drive, its still doenst work correctly. When installed in the game it comes up as an Emerald and not a Force 2002. Same thing happens with the Platinum drives.

By Bob Asciolla (Avalon) on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 06:58 am: Edit

Like Ive said before, Ive had no problem copying any hard drive. There are certain parameters you must adhere to before the Imagemaster will copy. Are you using the IQ copy mode? Certain modes for certain hard drives, but the operation manual explains all the settings. Took me a while to fine tune it to learn all the modes, but it works like a charm now.