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Merit Force "stalls" during game play. (Read 530 times)
Old Fogie
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Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
on: 02/07/10 at 11:33:43
 




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Hi all, countertop noob here.

I have been fixing video games for many years but this is my first Merit game since the eprom based units. Its a Force Radion 2005.5.

First problem was the CRT colors are shot. I found the guns are just flat worn out. Red was completely gone and B/G were weak. I shot the heck out of them with a rejuvinator and the colors came back, but without any cutoff left so the tube has to go. Further reading on this forum and others indicated that there is a common problem with this monitor and a neck board resistor (and tube) change will fix it.  Thats good news.

The second problem (once I could see the game again) was that the game will appear to freeze from time to time, usually after a touch to the screen. Yet if I leave it alone for a while it will eventually go where I told it to. Even though there is no disk thrashing during this pause, this symptom tells me to look at the drive.  I have run merits own drive tests, used the 2 button reset, and I have run my own tests on the drive out of the game and can't find anything wrong with the drive. I replaced the IDE cable and I connected another P/S to the game and the problem persists.

I read here that recapping the motherboard is a fairly common practice, yet I have never read why this is so common. I know about monitors needing this done so I can understand the logic, but before I do this, is this "stalling" one of the symptoms that warrants recapping the MB? ( I dont see a kit available from badcaps.net for this P61WP-Fe M/B either)

I appreciate any advice on this, thanks in advance.
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #1 - on: 02/07/10 at 14:04:09
 




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Old Fogie wrote on 02/07/10 at 11:33:43:
Hi all, countertop noob here.

I have been fixing video games for many years but this is my first Merit game since the eprom based units. Its a Force Radion 2005.5.

First problem was the CRT colors are shot. I found the guns are just flat worn out. Red was completely gone and B/G were weak. I shot the heck out of them with a rejuvinator and the colors came back, but without any cutoff left so the tube has to go. Further reading on this forum and others indicated that there is a common problem with this monitor and a neck board resistor (and tube) change will fix it.  Thats good news.

The second problem (once I could see the game again) was that the game will appear to freeze from time to time, usually after a touch to the screen. Yet if I leave it alone for a while it will eventually go where I told it to. Even though there is no disk thrashing during this pause, this symptom tells me to look at the drive.  I have run merits own drive tests, used the 2 button reset, and I have run my own tests on the drive out of the game and can't find anything wrong with the drive. I replaced the IDE cable and I connected another P/S to the game and the problem persists.

I read here that recapping the motherboard is a fairly common practice, yet I have never read why this is so common. I know about monitors needing this done so I can understand the logic, but before I do this, is this "stalling" one of the symptoms that warrants recapping the MB? ( I dont see a kit available from badcaps.net for this P61WP-Fe M/B either)

I appreciate any advice on this, thanks in advance.


I don't think changing the neck board resistor will fix the problem. If you search on here, you will find a source for replacement tubes. I ordered in and replaced 6 of these tubes. They came with the yoke, divergence magnets, complete. That is the time to change the neckboard resistor.

I haven't come across the problem you are describing on a Radion. I also can't remember any of these boards needing a cap kit on any we own. Other than the picture tube, the power supplies are crap. Think I have had one or two that the drive went bad, but not glitchy, they completely failed.
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #2 - on: 02/07/10 at 14:33:06
 




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I dont either, I understand that the neck board resistor will only help prolong the life of the new tube by dropping the drive voltage to the guns.

Have you ever capped a motherboard? Why did you need to do that?

BTW-LOL over that avatar of yours. Thats just hilarious.
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #3 - on: 02/08/10 at 11:14:57
 




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Take a good look at the motherboard caps, You may see bulged caps, Very common. If you redo the mainboard put a new power supply in right away as it will most likely have bad caps also that sent out rough unfiltered power that added to the motherboard cap problem. As for the crt why monkey with changing the tube and modding the neckboard, They have a nice drop in lcd conversion out for these that looks better and is not much more than the expense of redoing the tube setup anyway.
Just my thoughts on what I would do.
Robb
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #4 - on: 02/08/10 at 11:19:11
 




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Just to add, In a few cases I found the hard drive cables bad, Dust on the ram chip, Bad ram chip. Add some more ram helps reduce hard drive wear. These had 64 megs upgrading them to 128 or 256 meg really makes a difference. Just basic old pc133 dimm ram. If you have any old touchtunes gen 2 stuff touchtunes didn't want back the ram works great in merits. 256 megs.

Make sure the CPU fan is running and not full of dust.

You can go into the operator setup screen and run a full hard drive test although that test seems to miss about 40 percent of hard drive problems but may tell you something.
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #5 - on: 02/08/10 at 14:04:19
 




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[quote author=admin link=1265567623/0#5 date=1265663029]Old Fogie wrote on 02/07/10 at 14:33:06:
I dont either, I understand that the neck board resistor will only help prolong the life of the new tube by dropping the drive voltage to the guns.

Have you ever capped a motherboard? Why did you need to do that?

BTW-LOL over that avatar of yours. Thats just hilarious.


Keep reading this forum about bad motherboard caps, and all will become clear. I have lost track of how many motherboards I have recapped.
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #6 - on: 02/08/10 at 14:16:24
 




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We need to change our job titles to " Capacitor Replacers"!! Seems to be 80 percent of it all now.........
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #7 - on: 02/10/10 at 06:35:21
 




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Thanks for the help guys. I guess I'll get some caps, its the cheapest way to eliminate that.

A guy on ebay that sells merit parts tells me that he's sure its the drive. No question in his mind.... and he has them in stock too! Wink

I sure wish there was a definitive test that could be done on this drive. The self test went fine and other tests out of the system were fine. No concrete evidence of anything wrong with the drive.

Robb, the LCD kit from Happ was my first choice but is about $500. a tube was ~$135.  If you know where to get the LCD cheaper, please let me know.

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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #8 - on: 02/10/10 at 10:50:59
 




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Old Fogie wrote on 02/10/10 at 06:35:21:
Thanks for the help guys. I guess I'll get some caps, its the cheapest way to eliminate that.

A guy on ebay that sells merit parts tells me that he's sure its the drive. No question in his mind.... and he has them in stock too! Wink

I sure wish there was a definitive test that could be done on this drive. The self test went fine and other tests out of the system were fine. No concrete evidence of anything wrong with the drive.

Robb, the LCD kit from Happ was my first choice but is about $500. a tube was ~$135.  If you know where to get the LCD cheaper, please let me know.


Unless the caps are swollen, I doubt it's caps.

Definitive test is put it in another Radion.

re: Happ LCD kit - the reason it is costly is the touchpanel, not the LCD
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #9 - on: 02/10/10 at 11:19:40
 




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Make sure with a new tube it comes with the yoke and converg assembly already installed otherwise it is a fun process removing it from the old tube and getting everything realigned on the new one.
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #10 - on: 02/10/10 at 11:25:23
 




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Let me look here, I think I have a new tube here I never used, Ended up putting lcds in them. If I have it yet I'll give you a great deal on it.
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #11 - on: 02/10/10 at 21:14:43
 




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I have a ton of PC133 ram around so added the memory just for fun and it still would freeze up. On a lark I removed the old memory and left the new memory in its place...Hasn't frozen up in an hour and is more responsive in general. Gonna turn my kids loose on it for the next day or so and then I'll be convinced it works. Wouldn't have thought it was RAM.

Robb- I would be interested in a great deal on that tube.

FG - I meant an "out of machine" definitive test. Something that will verify the drive hardware is functional and the file system is intact. I don't have a bunch of these lying around, this is the first I have worked on since the CRT250 (I think thats what they were called) boards full of eproms and a security PAL.  

Perhaps the memory change proves that I did verify the drive was functional and I was looking the wrong direction. I'll have to wait till I get a bad drive to test that theory. If anyone has a couple bad drives (that still spin up)  I would sure like to inspect them.

Sure do appreciate you guys being here. Smiley
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #12 - on: 02/17/10 at 12:27:26
 




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I did some digging in my spare parts and found that tube. Brand new in the original box, I just opened it to check it out. This one has everything on it already, Yoke purity rings etc so it should just be a plug and play swap.
I don't have a clue anymore what I paid for it anymore, I had it here a few years. How does about 80 bucks sound?
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coin_op
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #13 - on: 02/17/10 at 14:55:40
 


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Robb
If old fogie does not buy that tube I would be interested
Thanks
BJ
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #14 - on: 02/17/10 at 15:11:58
 




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Sounds good, Just keep a eye on this thread then.
Robb
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #15 - on: 02/18/10 at 18:44:35
 




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robb, I'll take that tube. How do we handle this?
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #16 - on: 02/19/10 at 11:37:21
 




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Send me a PM here with your name and shipping address, I'll figure out the shipping for the total
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #17 - on: 02/19/10 at 11:54:03
 




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PM sent, can you point me to the post about the resistor change thats needed?
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Robb
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #18 - on: 02/19/10 at 12:14:30
 




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Got you PM, I'll check on the UPS cost, Shouldn't be to much.
DavemanUT here does many of these and could suggest what he found works best. I know it is changing a resistor on the tubes neckboard to drop the tubes heater voltage but don't recall the new resistor value that works best, Could not find my notes here on it.
Robb
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Old Fogie
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Re: Merit Force "stalls" during game play.
Reply #19 - on: 02/19/10 at 14:19:24
 




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From another post...
Change R991 on the neckboard from a 3 Ohm to a 6.2 Ohm. This is supposed to cut the voltage a little, thus making the tube last longer with no change in performance. RSDA (Dean)
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